Obshchaya Gazeta 17 January
2002
Interview with Russian census official Irina Zbarskaya by Aleksandra
Samarina:
"Souls of the Population -- They Will Be Counting Us in Exactly
a Year. In the Name of the Law"
Irina Zbarskaya, the chief of the Population Census and Demographic Statistics
Administration of the State Committee on Statistics of Russia, answers
the questions of OG.
[Samarina] It is clear that a universal census of the population is
not just a statistical act. People should know their country; it is no
accident that even Afghanistan, without having been able to get rid of
war yet, recently announced its intention to count its citizens. But why
is a law needed -- in my opinion, there have not been any problems with
the census here, have there?
[Zbarskaya] The last time a population census was conducted was in 1989
-- in a different country, under a different political order. It was all
very simple then: the Council of Ministers passed a decree, the CPSU Central
Committee sent out a letter, and the secretaries of the party committees
at the local level supported the process -- and answered for it with
their party cards. Everything was written out in great detail: what
enterprise supplies the equipment, and so on and so forth.
The executors were specified -- "with the preservation of their wages
from their principal place of work." My predecessors did not
experience the kind of headache we have today -- we need to attract 600,000
people!
There is no rigid vertical power structure today like there was before.
The federal authorities can only recommend, in very mild form, that
the regional authorities take part in this endeavor. [???]
[Samarina] What is most important in the law, and how does
the present census differ from the prior one?
[Zbarskaya] First of all, the participation of the population is regulated:
it -- that participation -- is declared to be the social obligation
of every citizen. But most important, in my opinion, is that the state
is guaranteeing the confidentiality of the information obtained in the
course of the census. Previously there had been no law --
and the state did not promise to keep it secret... [???] We have no
interest in some specific Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov living someplace, higher
education...
We are creating a depersonalized database that differs fundamentally
from the register of the population that is inherent in the databases of
various agencies or the Pension Fund, for example. We are conducting a
census based on the word of the people being surveyed, we do not ask them
to show any documents, we do not check out the correctness of the answers.
There will be no verifications of passports or registrations.
The census takers will present identification developed by FAPSI [Federal
Agency for Government Communications and Information], and it is virtually
impossible to forge. The crime situation in this country is very complicated.
We understand that not everyone will open their door to our workers. So
fixed census offices have been envisioned where people can drop in on their
free time. You can also tell about yourself by telephone. They are already
using more advanced technologies in the United States and Canada, they
are doing surveys over the Internet -- we are still not ready for that.
[Samarina] What is the principal difficulty of this enormous
undertaking?
[Zbarskaya] The scale of it. We have been preparing for
four years, and it will be conducted like a military operation -- in
eight days. October 4 will be declared "readiness 0," and the preliminary
rounds will begin. The census takers will become familiarized with their
population, and people will be informed once again of the impending survey.
It is like a photograph of the country at a particular moment: the
critical date of the census is midnight on 9 October 2002. Those who were
born after October 9 will not get into the census. On the other hand, those
who leave this life on the 10th will be counted!
[Samarina] Most of the developed countries conduct their
censuses in years ending in a nine or a zero -- why do we have such an
odd date?
[Zbarskaya] Because of the lack of financing in 1997
and 1998. The new law stipulates that a census has to be conducted
no less often than once every ten years. Some countries, such as Canada
or Japan, for example, count their population once every five years --
that would be too much for us...
[Samarina] How will illegal immigrants, the homeless, and other unsettled
persons be counted?
[Zbarskaya] We will set up tables at markets, train stations,
and other "gathering places" of such parts of the unregulated population,
where those wishing to can take part in the census. We already tried
out this option at four Moscow markets in the area of Preobrazhenskaya
Square during a test census -- strange as it may seem, homeless people
come to us very willingly. It is understandable in a psychological sense
-- a person wants to stay a person to the end, and the performance of his
civic duty records the not quite lost status of these poor people.
We are also working through the management of the markets -- they explain
to the illegals that nothing at all is being asked of them. [???]
If they say they have come here to work, we ask them about their country
of origin, their country of permanent residence, we determine the gender
[!!!] and age -- and that's it!
[Samarina] How much is this population census going to cost?
[Zbarskaya] The costs are less than in other countries:
in America, for example, one person counted costs the taxpayers 35 dollars,
but here just one. The economy will be achieved chiefly through the modest
pay for the workers. The census takers will get about one and a half
thousand rubles for the three weeks (including training).
We are hiring interested people from among students and those temporarily
unemployed. There are many women among them -- people open the door
to them more willingly. Of course, the question of the danger to our census
workers arises as well. We will draw up in advance, with the aid of
the police, lists of "bad" apartments there they will knock only in
the accompaniment of the divisional inspector...
[Samarina] Have authorities, parties, and social movements
tried to use the census to get a reading on the population?
[Zbarskaya] We took note of such matters at once -- our
endeavor is outside of politics. Attempts to make use of the census
for political purposes -- for election campaigning -- were made in some
regions, and we stopped that. True, at the initiative of
scholars, we did include on the questionnaire a request that women tell
the number of children they had, but then we rejected that idea.
The percentage of responses received to the test questionnaire was too
low -- people do not want to share the secrets of their private lives.
And they are correct in that.
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